[This is the record of a talk Pavitra had with Sri Aurobindo. Pavitra was a French disciple of the Master who had his education at l’Ecole de Polytechnique in
Sri Aurobindo:
In the West the higher minds are not turned towards spiritual truth but towards material science. The scope of science is very narrow: it touches only the most exterior part of the physical plane.
And even there, what does science really know? It studies the functioning of the laws, edificates theories ever renewed and each time held up as the last word of truth! We had recently the atomic theory, now comes the electronic!
There are, for instance, two statements of modern science that would stir up deeper ranges in an occultist:
1. atoms are whirling systems like the solar system;
2. the atoms of all the elements are made out of the same constituents. Different
arrangement is the only cause of different properties.
If these statements are considered under their true aspect, they could lead science to new discoveries of which there is no idea actually and in comparison with which the actual knowledge is poor.
According to the experience of ancients Yogis, sensible matter was made out of five elements, bhūtāni: Prithvi, Apas, Agni (Tejas), Vayu, Akasha.
Agni is threefold:
1. ordinary fire, Jala Agni,
2. electric fire, Vaidyuta Agni,
3. solar fire, Saura Agni.
Science only entered upon the first and the second of these fires. The fact that the atom is a like the solar system could lead it to the knowledge of the third.
Beyond Agni is Vayu of which science knows nothing. It is the support of all contact and exchange, the cause of gravitation and of the fields (magnetic and electric). By it, the action of Agni, the formal element, builder of forms, is made possible.
And beyond Vayu is the ether, Akasha.
But these constitute only the grossest part of the physical plane. Immediately behind is the physical-vital, the element of life buried in matter. J. C. Bose is contacting this element in his experiment. Beyond is the mind of matter. This mind has a far different form than the human mind, still it is a manifestation of the same principle of organisation. And deep below there are two more hidden layers…
That is the occult knowledge concerning the physical plane only. Science is far behind this knowledge.
The Hindu Yogis that had realised these experiences did not elaborate them and turn them into scientific knowledge. Other fields of action and knowledge being open before them, they have neglected what for them was the most exterior aspect of the manifestation.
There is a difference between the scientific mind and the cast of mind of an occultist. There is little doubt that one who could unite these two groups of faculties would lead science towards great progress.
Pavitra:
Did science study the first three Tattwas? What is then Apas?
Sri Aurobindo:
It is the element that makes life possible, the desire which is the source of life, Agni is the element which renders form possible and Prithvi is the compacting element which concretises.
K:
Water is recognised by science as indispensable to life. Any strong dehydrating agent is an antiseptic: e.g. absolute alcohol, etc.
Pavitra:
But water is not Apas! What is the relation between the Tattwas and the three states of matter: solid, liquid, gaseous?
Sri Aurobindo:
These states of matter are the most exterior manifestation of these elements and they are in correspondence with them.
K:
Why does Vayu, which corresponds to the gas, stand higher than Agni?
Sri Aurobindo:
Vayu has been identified with the gas, but it is a mistake. It is Vayu which permits exchanges and mutual actions, gravitation for instance. It is an element of contact.
K:
Is Vayu what has been called Pancha Vayu?
Sri Aurobindo:
No. There is nothing in common. Pancha Vayu represents certain movements in the vital body.
Pavitra:
Do also the five senses correspond to the five Tattwas?
Sri Aurobindo:
For some of them, the correspondence is easy to recognise. We find in Sankhya, for instance, that Apas contains Rasa, the sense of taste. Agni, determining the forms, corresponds to Sight; Vayu, the contacting element, to Touch. As for smell, which has the emission of particles as a mechanism, the correspondence is less evident. It is perhaps more of the nature of a symbol!
Pavitra:
The hearing is then of a higher quality than the sight?
Sri Aurobindo:
The hearing and the sounds that we receive are very little compared to the total possibility of sound. Any manifestation originates by a movement. That is what the Veda meant by the creation of sound, by creative sound, Shabda Shrishti.
K:
Shabda is then very different than what we call sound?
Sri Aurobindo:
The range of our sonorous perception is small. There exists in sound something higher, beyond the physical manifestation.
X:
Some consider as different in their properties the sounds issued by living organisms and the sounds made by dead matter.
Y:
Another classification is given in Tantras. They divide them in three classes: Vaikhari, Madhyama, and Pashyanti.
Pavitra:
Are there five elements or seven?
Sri Aurobindo:
The ancient seers told that everything was going by seven. But in the present state of evolution there are in play only five principles of which perception is possible. But very likely, there are seven Tattwas.
K:
What corresponds to the Tattwa, on the vital plane?
Sri Aurobindo:
There are evidently correspondences, but we enter into a far different world.
X:
Is sensible matter made of Prithvi only, or is it compounded with other Tattwas?
Sri Aurobindo:
What we perceive contains the five Tattwas, that means that the five Tattwas cooperated in its formation.
Pavitra:
Reverting to science, it seems it has followed for the study of the physical plane a method which has given good fruits. Does this method apply to the study of the higher planes?
1. Observation and Experiment.
2. Deduction of laws.
3. Building up of theories and hypotheses connecting these laws.
They have a twofold object:
· To explain the mechanism of the phenomenon and the origin of the laws.
· To suggest other laws and other experiments.
Moreover there are certain principles that have ruled the scientific mind, such as, not to accept an hypothesis which is not indispensable.
If these methods and principles are not suitable for the higher planes, what modifications are needed in order to enable the study of occult knowledge? Here also some method is necessary?
Sri Aurobindo;
Without any doubt. Observation and experiment avail much in occultism. But if from what is perceived and with no other help, one tried to deduce general laws, the worst mistakes would be made. Something else is necessary; let us call it “intuition”. It is a discernment which enables to assert: it is so, or it is not so! And it is an indispensable faculty.
Moreover, the occultist does not make any hypothesis. Experimenting and observation confirm what the intuition reveals to him. He is liable to error or ignorance. If what he has is insufficient he must search for deeper and more complete intuitions. He can commit mistakes if he builds false mental constructions around his intuitions. And mind easily makes up for the want of intuition with its own accretions. It is a very common source of error, and it has led astray a number of occultists.
Anyhow, there are no hypotheses in occultism. After all, scientific hypotheses have no character of truth. Very often it is possible to give two different theories explaining the very same facts. They have then equal values. In such a case, possibilities are more important than truth.