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21 February 2010—Darshan Message
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Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
RY Deshpande
on Sun 21 Feb 2010 10:59 AM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Along with the 21 February 2010 Darshan Message, let us also read the Mother’s New Year Message for 1966:
![]() Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
RY Deshpande
on Sun 21 Feb 2010 03:24 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
The full text from which the Mother’s statement is taken for the message of 21 February 2010 is given in the following. It appears in the Collected Works of the Mother, De Luxe Edition, Vol. 13, pp. 212-13, Part Four: Auroville (Aims and Principles), pp. 193-228 (De Luxe Centenary Edition)
The notion of religion is most often linked to the search for God. Should religion be understood in this context only? As a matter of fact, are there not nowadays other forms of religion? We give the name of religion to any concept of the world or the universe which is presented as the exclusive Truth in which one must have an absolute faith, generally because this Truth is declared to be the result of a revelation. Most religions affirm the existence of a God and the rules to be followed to obey Him, but there are some Godless religions, such as socio-political organisations which, in the name of an Ideal or the State, claim the same right to be obeyed. To seek Truth freely and to approach it freely along his own lines is a man’s right. But each one should know that his discovery is good for him alone and it is not to be imposed on others. 13 May 1970 There appears to be a design in picking up the last paragraph only for the message. But it is necessary to read it in the context fully. ~ RYD Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Sandeep
on Mon 22 Feb 2010 05:59 AM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
There appears to be a design in picking up the last paragraph only for the message. But it is necessary to read it in the context fully.
Its interesting to observe that those who accuse others of playing politics and harbouring power agendas are themselves engaging in the same. Let it be known that `Two Bongs cannot make it right'! :-) I found the following in Champaklal's treasures RULES AND REGULATIONS OF THE ASHRAM Sri Aurobindo may have supported freedom of speech as an instrument for free society but it was certainly not the case in the Ashram as rule number 6 above shows. Every principle must be applied with regard to some context and some social aggregrate. To blindly apply the same principle everywhere is also indicative of dogma. Yoga demands consecration to the Guru and purification of speech. One wonders what Sri Aurobindo would have done to a man like Heehs who lives in the Ashram and, among other things, accuses Sri Aurobindo's direct disciples of engaging in plagiarism (TLOSA, page 394) Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
RY Deshpande
on Mon 22 Feb 2010 06:16 AM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
>> One wonders what Sri Aurobindo would have done to a man like... >>
Probably Sri Aurobindo would have not done anything. It is the Mother who would have thrown him out without a moment’s delay. ~ RYD Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Akash
on Sun 21 Feb 2010 03:27 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
As always with the words of Sri Aurobindo and the Mother, this is a deep message. The word "imposed" in the message brings up the linkage of the individual with the collective.
What does it mean to "impose" one's personal discovery of Truth on others? And how should one who feels imposed upon reject the imposition and retain the freedom Mother speaks of? Can a third party be the imposer, or the protector against imposition? Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
RY Deshpande
on Sun 21 Feb 2010 03:43 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Akash
I think we’ve posted our comments simultaneously, mine a split second earlier than yours. The Mother’s full statement should clarify your point. Please have a look at it and let us know if it is ok. This is important to see if the message given out was contextually motivated. ~ RYD Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
V. Arvind
on Sun 21 Feb 2010 08:15 PM IST | Permanent Link
Indeed the message seems taken out of context.
Wouldn't it better to only repeat Mother's birthday messages of the past, from the time before her passing, rather than pick a sentence out of context? Otherwise, it is someone else's message, not the Mother's! Re: Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
RY Deshpande
on Sun 21 Feb 2010 09:24 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Good point.
RYD Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Vikas
on Mon 22 Feb 2010 02:29 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
I agree it is a "deep message" in the sense that to the Mother the truth that different paths culminate in different experiences of the Divine is very real and far greater than what we can mentally conceive. One interpretation could be that "To seek Truth and approach it freely along his own lines is a man's right". The discovery of the Truth he makes consequently (proceeding along his own lines) must be "good for him alone". The aspect of the Truth discovered must be unique to each. For example each one's central being(Jivatman) is unique and therefore the personal discovery of that Truth must be different for each. There is unity but not uniformity. Same with the psychic being. Therefore proclaiming or imposing one's discovery to be the sole truth is an error. Needless to say that imposing one's "own lines" of approach too is an error simply because they may not resonate with another given that each nature is constituted differently.
"What does it mean to "impose" one's personal discovery of Truth on others?". I suppose proclaiming from the rooftops "Eureka I have found IT"! The imposition can take ofcourse more ominous forms. History amply testifies to that. We see that in the world today. Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Akash
on Sun 21 Feb 2010 09:24 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
It'd be good to explore and understand my questions in the context of the given message alone.
Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Sandeep
on Mon 22 Feb 2010 06:19 AM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
What does it mean to "impose" one's personal discovery of Truth on others? And how should one who feels imposed upon reject the imposition and retain the freedom Mother speaks of? Can a third party be the imposer, or the protector against imposition?
There are a variety of ways in which it can happen. I will give you one example. Imagine a person masters post-modernism and general philosophy and retains the academic temperament and connection. Then he engages in FUD tactics by pronouncing that everyone has to think like him, that the Ashram has to function like a University and that people should not rely on any kind of image worship. If others don't follow him, then they are abused and portrayed as being caught in cultic vocabularies and are turning Yoga into religion. Non-compliance by the Other is used as a power event to gain power and personal prestige. An interesting portion from Champaklal's treasures The western mind always finds it difficult to submit totally to a Guru and without total and unquestioning surrender to the Guru his help to you is paralysed. That is why generally I advise westerners to find the guidance and the Presence within themselves; it is true that this process is very often open to uncertainty and self-deception, mistaking some voice of the ego in disguise for the Divine's guidance. Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
RY Deshpande
on Mon 22 Feb 2010 06:49 AM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
“... each one should know that his discovery is good for him alone and it is not to be imposed on others.” Apropos of it we have this comment: “It'd be good to explore and understand my questions in the context of the given message alone.”
I wonder, yet possibly could be. But let us take the phrase “to be imposed on others”. In the first instance, it has to be one’s own discovery. George Bush for example had never made his own discovery of democracy, but he went ahead to impose it on Iraq. In terms of not politics but ideals, that is nothing but fundamentalism. A rationalist’s imposition is as dogmatic and pernicious as of a religionist’s. Auroman has essentially put the same but contextually in another manner. ~ RYD Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Akash
on Mon 22 Feb 2010 11:06 AM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Let's take the life of Buddha. By secluding him from childhood, was his father following his own freedom or was he imposing on young Sid. When he left, was he exercising his own freedom or imposing on the palace? Had he stayed on but followed his own line of development without regard to princely norms - freedom or imposition? Preaching after enlightenment - freedom or imposition? Ashoka taking up Buddhism and sending ambassadors, formation of the Sangha, resurgence of Hinduism - freedom or imposition? [Because what Mother says applies in so many senses and at so many levels, I said it was "deep".]
Re: Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Vikas
on Mon 22 Feb 2010 03:37 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
In the message, the Mother is speaking I believe in the context of religion and the pursuit of Truth etc. However it is true and interesting to observe that we are in a way "imposing" upon others frequently(if we assume imposition as being forceful in the pejorative sense). Ill-will, anger and the unsavory activities of the lower nature must necessarily be an imposition on others. Our actions(not physical alone) must affect those in the ambit of our influence. I suppose the next level of humanity might witness laws against mental malpractice! Physical evolution below the human species is itself a violent imposition given that survival is a zero sum game.
Buddha's renunciation has simply no parallel. Surely he was exercising his own freedom. The sense and horror of the impermanence of everything - which is what prompted his quest - was overwhelming. It led him to abandon all - wife, child, kingdom and faithful attendant. The kingdom and the palace was much the poorer for it, as it is believed that he would have been a great king too. But the world would have lost a spiritual giant and we would have not seen the birth of Buddhism. Sri Aurobindo considered Buddha "in his action the most powerful personality that we know of as having lived and produced results upon earth.". I can't imagine Buddha's preaching would have been an imposition. Ashoka's case is different. I wonder if he had the Nirvanic experience. His turning to Buddhism was also the turning point of Indian history as revealed by Sri Aurobindo. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Akash
on Thu 25 Feb 2010 11:45 AM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Physical evolution below the human species is itself a violent imposition given that survival is a zero sum game.
"In the animal kingdom, the rule is, eat or be eaten; in the human kingdom, define or be defined." Thomas Szasz (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/t/thomasszas165823.html) Re: Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Sandeep
on Mon 22 Feb 2010 11:22 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
[Because what Mother says applies in so many senses and at so many levels, I said it was "deep".]
Things become deep, nay confusing, if begin to analyze all of Life using just one quote of the Mother. That's like analyzing the physical world using only the first law of thermodynamics or stating that all spiritual life is governed solely by freedom of speech. The movement of Life is many-sided and includes Karma, Dharma, Free-will, Evolution, Heredity, Society, Culture, and so on. Let's take the life of Buddha. By secluding him from childhood, was his father following his own freedom or was he imposing on young Sid. He was fulfilling his responsibility according to as per the heights and limits of his knowledge. It was his duty to raise his child. When he left, was he exercising his own freedom or imposing on the palace? At the time, Sid was walking away in search of a greater Truth. In hindsight, it was predestined. Had he stayed on but followed his own line of development without regard to princely norms - freedom or imposition? That's similar to an academic living in a Ashram. This is a clash of value systems which would have backfired in the long run. Ramana Maharshi's brother castigated him once for meditating when he should have been studying saying something like "You have become a burden on us". Shortly after that, Ramana Maharshi picked his brother's wallet for travel expenses and left the house to head for Arunachala. Preaching after enlightenment - freedom or imposition? That is not preaching. Liberated souls are not missionaries. They act in consonance with the Divine Will and address only the souls who come to hear the Truth. Ashoka taking up Buddhism and sending ambassadors, formation of the Sangha, resurgence of Hinduism - freedom or imposition? As King, he had the power over his subjects and acted according to his Dharma. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Sandeep
on Tue 23 Feb 2010 07:37 AM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Shortly after that, Ramana Maharshi picked his brother's wallet for travel expenses and left the house to head for Arunachala. Devotees of Ramana Maharshi, who lack reading skills, might wail in anguish and go to court to ban the Mirror of Tomorrow because I am suggesting that he was a pickpocket. They need to calm down because making scurrilous remarks is part of my Yoga and they shouldn't interfere with it otherwise it becomes a dogma. The parallel was too cute to resist :-) Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Akash
on Tue 02 Mar 2010 10:16 AM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Things become deep, nay confusing, if begin to analyze all of Life using just one quote of the Mother.
May be, may be not - best to stop analyzing and start living the Mother's words. Otoh, why see everything as being related to a particular book? Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Sandeep
on Tue 02 Mar 2010 07:50 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
May be, may be not - best to stop analyzing and start living the Mother's words.
Certainly but every quote is balanced by some other. They have to be understood as a framework just like the various laws of physics. That is what I meant. Otoh, why see everything as being related to a particular book? It's the topic of the day. It's fun ! Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
RY Deshpande
on Tue 02 Mar 2010 08:00 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
>>It's the topic of the day. It's fun! >>
Please, it's not fun. It's a serious matter, and let us see it in all its gravity, with poise and dignity, in terms of deeper truth, cultural and spiritual in its nobility. RYD Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
Sandeep
on Tue 02 Mar 2010 10:57 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Please, it's not fun. It's a serious matter, and let us see it in all its gravity, with poise and dignity, in terms of deeper truth, cultural and spiritual in its nobility. RYD
When you become truly (inwardly) dispassionate, everything becomes fun, although others may infer your actions incorrectly on the basis of their own consciousness. Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
RY Deshpande
on Mon 22 Feb 2010 10:06 AM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
The message for 21 February 2010 has been picked up from an answer the Mother gave regarding the notion of religion. This question dated 13 May 1970 by itself stands without any context, the sequence of questions that might have led to it not being available. Let us however see the previous entry dated 2 May 1970 about Auroville and the Religions. The Mother’s statement is as follows:
We want the Truth.In this the operative phrase is “for those who want to live a life essentially divine” and that should settle everything. It is only in experience that there can be knowledge of the Truth. ~ RYD Re: 21 February 2010—Impositions
by
RY Deshpande
on Tue 23 Feb 2010 03:28 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Three Impositions
Deer Park
Cross in the Cloud
Blowing the Conchs Are these impositions? Let’s see. ~ RYD Re: 21 February 2010—Darshan Message
by
RY Deshpande
on Tue 23 Feb 2010 06:26 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Not a happy part of Indian History
But here is just an example representing unrefined human propensities if not stupidities through the ages and all over the world. Aurangzeb, also known as Alamgir or the Conqueror of the World, (4 November 1618-3 March 1707), was the 6th Mughal Emperor whose reign lasted from 1658 until his death in 1707.
Religions on the Battlefield: an Indian Scene
Demolition of the Somnath Temple Writing a letter in the last decade of his reign, Aurangzeb asks his officers, "The temple of Somnath was demolished early in my reign and idol worship put down. It is not known what the state of things there is at present. If the idolators have again taken to the worship of images at that place, then destroy that temple in such a way that no trace of the building may be left." Now the religious battles have moved on to the ideological battles, from the vital to the mental. In some of their manifestations the former supported by the latter, or the latter exploiting the former, have assumed the dimensions of crass Fundamentalism and Terrorism. ~ RYD Re: 21 February 2010—Opinions can be Harmonised
by
RY Deshpande
on Wed 24 Feb 2010 04:41 AM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Opinions can be Harmonised
Here are two relevant statements from the Mother (CWM, Vol. 13) Each one has good reasons to support his own opinion, and I am no expert to judge between them. But from the spiritual point of view I know that with true goodwill all opinions can be harmonised in a more comprehensive and truer solution. This is what I expect from the workers of Auroville. Not that some give way to others, but that on the contrary all should combine their efforts to achieve a more comprehensive and perfect result. The ideal of Auroville demands this progress—don’t you want to make it? Blessings 14 November 1971 The only true freedom is the one obtained by union with the Divine. One can unite with the Divine only by mastering one’s ego. 1971 Re: 21 February 2010—Imposition I
by
RY Deshpande
on Fri 26 Feb 2010 10:07 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Imposition I
Before we come to the real issue of “Imposition” we’ve been talking about in the context of the 21 February 2010 Darshan Message, let us at once dismiss some of the aspects exemplified by the violent fervour entering into inter-religious conflicts. As given above, the Somanth temple is an illustration from history. The following story reported by Rafia Zakaria, a columnist from Karachi’s Dawn Wednesday, 24 February 2010, is a sad commentary on the kind of civilisation in which we live even today. She writes: The plight of Christian, Hindu and Sikh minorities in and near Swat and the tribal areas is particularly precarious, with their livelihoods and day-to-day existence threatened by the encroaching presence of the Taliban.Religion as a weapon for political control or ascendancy to power is not at all a new phenomenon. Constantine’s vision of the Cross in the clouds was a convenient mechanism for exploitation of the situation and perhaps had nothing really to do with the message of love that Christ had brought with him. Unless there is the discovery of the Truth, as the Mother insists, all is a play of ambition and self-promotion, a vital’s unabated gratification. This has no value in spiritual life and, surely, that is what the Mother is explaining vis-à-vis religion and the search for God. We shall take other situations of imposition separately. ~ RYD Re: 21 February 2010—Imposition II
by
RY Deshpande
on Sat 27 Feb 2010 06:57 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Imposition II
Constantine was a committed Christian and had no conflict in him in imposing harsh rules in the cause of "salvation of humanity". In fact he was capable of persecuting the wrong type of Christians. “As a law maker Constantine was terribly severe. Edicts were passed by which the sons were forced to take up the professions of their fathers. Not only was this terribly harsh on such sons who sought a different career. But by making the recruitment of veteran's sons compulsory, and enforcing it ruthlessly with harsh penalties, widespread fear and hatred was caused.” It is said that his wife Fausta had an illicit relation with her stepson Crispus from him and they were killed at his order. That makes sneaky all talk about Constantine being inspired by the Cross in the Cloud. Here is the naked play of the vital without any element of the psycho-spiritual, element one would expect when the discovery of Christ is made by anyone. Please form the following links for viewing the videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjuHsUV6-QE&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1asoxwkTWC0&feature=related ~ RYD Re: 21 February 2010—Imposition III
by
RY Deshpande
on Sat 27 Feb 2010 08:53 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Imposition III
Writing about the ban on kite-flying during the centuries-old Basant, the Karachi Dawn columnist Irfan Husain says that the festival has become a focus of controversy. (Saturday 27 February 2010) The Lahore High Court has refused to lift the original ban. One of the reasons given is, Basant has become an occasion for drinking and dance parties. The “attitude is in tune with the annual chorus from the mullahs who denounce the festival as having Hindu origins, and thus somehow un-Islamic. Basant is a festival that heralds the coming of spring, a season of rebirth and renewal in all cultures. Different societies celebrate the end of winter in different ways,” writes Irfan Husain, “but they are all joyous occasions, and normally have no religious connotations. Our clerics, more influenced by Afghanistan’s Taliban, have been doing their best to prevent people from having fun. Innocent pleasures are denounced from the pulpit, and people are forced into enjoying the simplest forms of pleasures behind closed doors... Those denouncing Basant as a Hindu festival would be surprised to learn that many of the marriage rituals that have become central to Pakistani weddings have their roots in Hindu society. ... Our judges, officials and mullahs need to realise that there is more to life than long lists of do’s and don’ts. The Taliban in Afghanistan based their entire rule on what people were and were not allowed to do. When their Pakistani cousins grabbed territory in Swat and elsewhere, the first thing they did was to shut down video shops and slap a ban on music. And of course, education for girls was strictly forbidden. When we talk of eradicating extremism, we forget that it cannot be done simply by shooting a few terrorists. A change in mindset is needed. When Zia imposed so-called Islamic laws on Pakistan, he set into motion a chain of events that has culminated in the chaos we see around us. If we are serious about winning our country back from the zealots who have seized control, we need to starve them of oxygen. This takes the form of our school curriculum that teaches intolerance; the large section of our media that stifles rational discussion; and our public discourse that makes a virtue of hypocrisy. When we ban the shared enjoyment of traditional festivals like Basant, we are only strengthening the extremists who have come to shape our national agenda.” Moral policing of the society was started by Bhutto in 1977. “Zia built on these changes, introducing flogging and public hanging during his murderous rule.” Irfan Husain quotes an Iranian blogger who wrote the following in 2003: “Twenty-five years of religious rule has had one long-term benefit … for generations to come no Iranian will ever want to mix matters of state with religion.” Seven years after this was posted on the Internet, Iranians are still struggling for their freedom. But at least they are fighting against the forces of darkness. Re: 21 February 2010—Imposition IV
by
RY Deshpande
on Tue 02 Mar 2010 03:49 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Imposition IV
Apropos of some of the comments on the Darshan Message and its possible connection with the highly controversial book The Lives of Sri Aurobindo, let me first post Alok Pandey in the following: The message is fine but I have some hesitations with regard to the following points:We have been looking at the phrase “not to be imposed on others” in the Message in several respects and these must be kept in mind while discussing the issues associated with it. This is an on-going discussion not yet concluded, but comments that have appeared in the form of images should already give us sufficient idea of the drift, that there is a difference between “imposition” and “teaching”. Here the explicitness is about “imposition” in contrast to the help a spiritual Master or Teacher gives to the seeker of the spiritual values and realizations, help to make for oneself the discovery of the Truth. ~ RYD Re: 21 February 2010—Imposition V
by
RY Deshpande
on Tue 02 Mar 2010 03:56 PM IST | Profile | Permanent Link
Imposition V
Let me quote the following from the Mother: 22 August 1968She had already anticipated the kind of controversy in which we might get engaged regarding her writings! How tiring! ~ RYD Trackbacks
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